From Treasury to Tokens: A Blockchain Compliance Journey with Blockchain.com's Kate Eyerman

Ari Redbord (00:02):

I am Ari Redbord and this is TRM Talks. I'm global head of policy At TRM Labs. We provide blockchain intelligence software to support law enforcement investigations and to help financial institutions and cryptocurrency businesses mitigate financial crime risk within the emerging digital asset economy. Prior to joining TRM spent 15 years in the US federal government, first as a prosecutor at the Department of Justice, and then as a Treasury Department official where I worked to safeguard the financial system against terrorist financiers, weapons of mass destruction, proliferators, drug kingpins, and other rogue actors. On TRM Talks, I sit down with business leaders, policymakers, investigators, and friends from across the crypto ecosystem who are working to build a safer financial system. Today I am joined by chief compliance officer for blockchain.com, Kate Eyerman, but first Inside the Lab where I share data-driven insights from our blockchain intelligence team.

(01:06):

In the world of transnational crime, borders don't end at a physical line. They extend across payment rails. TRM Labs recent report outlines how blockchain intelligence is being used to strengthen border enforcement against threats like smuggling, human trafficking and the synthetic drug trait. One of the key findings, blockchain intelligence can map cross-border money flows that correlate with smuggling routes, whether it's crypto payments from the US to central America for human trafficking or inbound flows tied to precursor chemical suppliers in China. Why does this matter? Because modern border of security is financial security. Just as cartels use crypto to move money, border agencies can use blockchain intelligence to trace criminal networks, identify facilitators and build cases. We're also seeing this intelligence drive real operations. In one instance, TRM helped identify a network of wallets connected to a smuggling ring with financial links to both traffickers and complicit facilitators in multiple jurisdictions. Border security now includes blockchain intelligence and this intersection financial crime plus physical border risk is where intelligence can shift from analysis to impact. For much more on the use of blockchain intelligence for border security, go to trmlabs.com/resources. Now I sit down with Kate Eyerman, chief Compliance Officer for blockchain.com. Kate, thank you for coming on TRM Talks.

Kate Eyerman (02:32):

My pleasure. Thank you so much, Ari, I'm thrilled to be here.

Ari Redbord (02:35):

I feel like you have such an incredible mix of experience. Tell me about that journey, how this started, this interest in digital assets and then ultimately kind of like where you are today.

Kate Eyerman (02:45):

Yeah, well I think that's very kind of you to say, so thank you. You've certainly had your own illustrious career as well and I feel fortunate that we've had the opportunity to cross paths in Treasury and our past lives. I would say that I have had a non-traditional career in compliance and I explain to people now, if you had asked me if I was going to be a chief compliance officer at a digital assets company five years ago, I would've said, how do I get there? What does this look like? And I think it's a good lesson that careers and professional opportunities may not necessarily follow a path that you would've expected. My background actually started really from a national security place. My first two jobs were within a US department of state and then the US Department of the Treasury where I was working on a wide variety of national security related issues and it was driven by my own personal interest in what was going on in the world, geopolitics, middle East, national security related issues.

(03:46):

And when I personally was working at the US Department of State, that is when Arab Spring happened. We were following what was happening in Syria and we may recall there was Syria one day and then ISIS the next day. And so I really ended up working on a lot of counterterrorism related issues, which quickly led to counterterrorism science and it was a question of we saw a lot of ISIS was a new terrorist organization and I think the US and the international community broadly was trying to think through how we could effectively combat and manage this new international risk. And really at the crux of a lot of that was understanding how they got their money, how are they financing themselves, what does this actually mean from a operational perspective? And it was brand new. This area dual claim exists in the way that we were seeing it at that time.

(04:47):

There were questions of is ISIS using Bitcoin? Is just using digital assets, what is this? And we were all trying to just wrap our arms around the scope of the problem. All that to say I was super fortunate to work on these really interesting issues during my time at state and then also really dive more deeply into them. When I moved on to Treasury and when I was at Treasury, it was counter-terrorist financing AML policy, sanctions policy, working with international organizations like FATF, really thinking about at the end of the day, how are we protecting the US and the international financial systems and how can we make sure that our financial system is not being abused and not being used by bad actors? And I just personally thought it was fascinating. I loved it. I love my job now, but I also don't think I'm ever going to have a job like I did when I was back at Treasury and I'm sure you can relate to that as well. Having been former US government, it was just so mission driven and felt very impactful and constantly changing and constantly being driven by what we're seeing in the space.

Ari Redbord (05:52):

It's an extraordinary background and I love so much about this. I think folks are listening have heard about the office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence at the Treasury Department, but you were in this sort of very special component of that called TFFC, which was really the policy shop. So you are engaging with the FATF globally, you're engaging with partners, but really sort of working on sort, really thinking through deeply policy issues, which is really interesting then to take that and do the thing that you've done in the private sector, which is really putting together the nuts and bolts of actually stopping those bad actors from engaging with the financial system.

Kate Eyerman (06:29):

Yeah, I appreciate the TFFC shout out. We were this really niche special office that I loved working with, but the tie for me personally between my work at the US Treasury Department and what I do now as a chief compliance officer at a digital access company is still about the mission of protecting our financial system. It's just that the financial system is, it takes a couple of different forms, right? We're talking both about how you think about traditional rails and also is how are we innovating and how are we still making sure that digital assets are similarly only being used for good activity?

Ari Redbord (07:07):

How do you get to be a CCO at one of the most important companies in the digital asset space? It's so interesting how you can start in one place deep in policy and end up in this sort of role that you're in today.

Kate Eyerman (07:19):

And I like to think that that past experience makes me more effective and more successful in my current role because it helps me think about the why does this matter? And also thinking about it now, especially in the context of we don't know necessarily what the future of US regulation is going to be and we think about multi-jurisdictional differences with regards to legal regime. It gives me the opportunity to think about how we're influencing the US government and how in the private sector it can be effective given my past government experience, what are the conversations that we want to be having with policy makers so that they can understand the practicalities of trying to manage a compliance program in a regulated financial institution? I think, and I stay often that I would have been better at my government job if I had worked in the private sector previously.

(08:11):

Like I said, I loved my time in the US government, but it's also, there's something different about putting out advisories and communicating with your external foreigners versus the actual day-to-day doing it and the US government or any government can put out the risk assistance and put out the guidance and implement the sanctions, but it really relies on those of us in the private sector to make that government policy reality because we are the ones at the end of the day that are the ones on the hook for implementing it. And the one thing that for example, that comes up often in these kinds of conversations is travel, which I think is just such a great example of how the US government or governments in general are thinking about how can we be better about information sharing so that we collectively and fully can understand who are beneficiaries and who are originators and what kind of names and information are you seeing so that we understand where money is moving. That's the goal of the travel rule, but the reality applying that in a crypto company is really different and has a lot of practical challenges that need to be taken into consideration in order to meet the spirit of the guidance and order to implement guidance.

Ari Redbord (09:31):

Absolutely, and I'm almost sure anyone who's listening to TRM Talks is pretty deep on the travel rule, but for folks who aren't, Kate's essentially talking about the rule that requires if you are a vast like blockchain.com, you are either required or will be required to send user information with the funds as you transfer them over to the next crypto exchange or potentially wallet address, and it's sort of been a deep question around how do you implement this and what should it ultimately look like?

Kate Eyerman (09:59):

And I mean I'll say those are the kinds of things that I find fun and interesting to solve.

Ari Redbord (10:03):

Absolutely. I mean I'm relating to so much of what you're talking about in terms of my move from the government to TRM and what I wish I knew then, but utilizing that government experience now, you didn't go right from Treasury to blockchain.com first TradFi, so Scotiabank, then Paxos and now your current role. Talk to me a little bit about the differences there and sort of the work you were doing.

Kate Eyerman (10:22):

Yeah, sure. So I was lucky to have the opportunity to go for some former Treasury colleagues when I went to Scotiabank, and that was for me a deep educational experience about what it means to actually work in a regulated financial institution and understand a little bit about what we were just talking about of the idea of actually applying what the US government is saying, but I really enjoyed being in a traditional regulated space and what that actually meant and it was also I think a first for me, personal entrance into how are we managing different legal regimes, Scotiabank as a Canadian bank, so how are you thinking about sanctions issues in Cuba when the US has a different sanctions regime versus the Canadians to Cuba, so what does that mean from an actual sanctions risk sanctions management perspective? Those are some of the more nuanced questions that I enjoy parsing through while I was there.

(11:22):

Ultimately, again, at the end of the day to make sure that you're being compliant with whatever your regulations are, but also enabling business, right? Also letting your customers from these different jurisdictions access whatever dollars or other currencies that you're trying to offer is that balance. And I think oftentimes we look at it through a lens of, well, we're just preventing illicit finance, but the big thing in the private sector also is yes, we're preventing illicit finance, but we're also building businesses. We can only innovate if our customers want that innovation and want these product offerings.

Ari Redbord (11:58):

I love that I talk all the time about compliance as a business advantage. If you can keep these platforms ultimately safer, hopefully users will go to the places that they feel safe and secure in transacting. How do you do that today@blockchain.com? How do you think about compliance? What kind of policies and procedures are critical?

Kate Eyerman (12:17):

I love this question because I just think it's so foundational to being an effective compliance professional, and I so wholly view compliance as such a business partner and business enabler and in order to make whatever company it is that you're working for effective and grow, I really do vehicle compliance and selling point. We've been talking really a lot about illicit activity and from an A ML lens, but compliance is also consumer protections. It's also prime to estate protection. It's also some of those other pieces. Even if you are scam protections, fraud protections, there's a lot of other components that I think are really important to protect our customers and to really be a successful selling point for any company. And so I want to make sure that we are giving on those protections to our customer. We're preventing bad activity from entering our platform and we're also building a effective internal compliance program and a team and a group of folks that enjoy managing the risk and view themselves as business partners that are launching new fund coal products, the things we probably didn't know existed a week ago. Right.

Ari Redbord (13:27):

That's awesome. What are the nuts and bolts? What are you doing on a day-to-day basis? What is your team doing to keep that platform safe?

Kate Eyerman (13:33):

Yeah, I often describe our operations or transaction monitoring or screening those nuts and bolts pieces as the engine of our compliance program. That is the critical part of actually just managing potential illicit activity and sifting through it all to see what nuggets are in here in order to figure out how we can get that information over to law enforcement. To your question, how do we know that that's being hectic? Well, we should be sifting to our right. We should be able to make sure that what we're actually looking at is useful. And so that's been definitely something on my mind of how are we making sure that our systems and our tools and our resources are set up to make sure that we are using our time effectively and using our resources effectively, both for a time, how are you spending your day perspective and also how is that enabling that public priming connection practically?

(14:30):

There's a lot that goes into actually managing and creating and building and best in class compliance program. I often try to grow myself and grow on the team in going back to the basics. What is our risk? What is your profile? Where are you working? Who are your customers? What products do you want to launch and do you have the tools that are in place in order to manage that? I think we can over complicate some of these things fairly quickly and if you have a solid foundation and an understanding of what your risk is, then that's going to set you up to scale and that's going to set you up for changed strategy or change directions or new product offerings or new tokens or new stable coins or whatever the product is of the year of the month.

Ari Redbord (15:23):

I love that and I love the way you described sort of the blocking and tackling. One thing you mentioned was this idea of public-private partnerships, PPPs, it's such a buzzword and to be honest with you, Isabella Chase is going to kill me right now. She loves these things, but a lot of time it's just a lot of talking, right? You put people in a room around a table, we're in the one space where that's not true. I am coordinating between our client exchanges and law enforcement all the time, and it might not be what people think about as a public-private partnership like sitting around a table sharing insights, but it's real and it's operational and it's this very cool responsive thing. It's happening through email exchanges and Slack messages on Saturday mornings, right. Talk to me about the way you think about engaging with the public sector.

Kate Eyerman (16:10):

Yeah. Well actually, I mean I've seen this from both sides. So when I was at Treasury, I remember hosting public credit dialogues and it was, let's get all of these partners from different banks or different countries and talk about what the risks are that you're facing and let's try to create an environment where people can share what their trends are or what their risks are or what their questions are. I think it was at that place when we were in the Treasury classroom, an opportunity to try to think through how can we build these relationships so that we can be better policymakers. Now on the private sector side, it's twofold. It's both sharing information with our policymakers so that we can influence them as they think through how should we be drafting subsequent regulations? How does the BSA apply to defi, what does blockchain monitoring mean in the context of transaction monitoring DFSI for regulations?

(17:06):

How do all these different pieces fit together and let's share our to Gulf experiences to help influence that governmental policy thinking as well as the actual day-to-day of, Hey, we're going to file this SAR and this is something potentially illicit, or we're going to call up this law enforcement official because we wanted to make sure that you're familiar with this trend that we're seeing, or we want to make sure that in crypto there's some new typology that is regularly popping up. It was a year or two ago and everyone was like, what's pig butchering? And now pig butchering is a very commonly used term that we think about and we want to manage the risks of, and we're seeing these kinds of things because of our watching monitoring tools and because of our investigations, we're going to be seeing this probably much sooner and much faster than our government colleagues and our policy colleagues and we're going to want to make sure that they know what the kinds of risks and patterns and technologies are that we're seeing are. They can use this to issue appropriate guidance.

Ari Redbord (18:09):

Extraordinary. So you totally name dropped the cash room in that answer. For folks who aren't familiar, the cash room is probably everyone's favorite room in the US Treasury Department, sort of the main building next to the White House. Tell us about the cash room.

Kate Eyerman (18:21):

Gosh, it's just a beautiful room. When you walk into the Treasury Department that is regularly used for high level meetings, gatherings, dialogues, it is really just like a stunning space and you feel the awe of the room when you're in it, and it also yet has an intimacy to it that makes it an effective space to bring together folks from different countries, industries and other backgrounds to hopefully from that dialogue, I've seen a lot of, I've been really lucky to see a lot of really fascinating people speak and own that space,

Ari Redbord (19:04):

But what's really extraordinary is it opened in 1869 and was the Banker's Bank. It supplied commercial banks with coins and currency from the Treasury vault. It literally was the cash room and now it's used as this really cool thing. So anyway, I digress. How are you thinking, if at all about AI today in implementing compliance or even threats that come from artificial intelligence?

Kate Eyerman (19:32):

This is the question that I think we're all, again trying to wrap our minds around actually understand what this means from a tooling perspective, but also I think your point is what does it also mean from a risk perspective? I think we're still discretion the surface of AI in both sides. What does it actually mean for tooling every day there's a new startup that it has that is creating some mechanism or some way to use AI and it is a risk management tool, how those are all going to synthesize and come together for effective risk management tooling. I'm really excited to see, I don't know what that's going to look like. To go back to the conversation just enrollment ago about public crimes dialogue, we're still educating our public counterparts on tools that have been around for a while watching monitoring or how we actually think about some of those other pieces that might be smart contracts and how we use those other phrase seize orders.

(20:35):

How do we actually use our capabilities in the tech space to mitigate risks that we've probably been around for a little while now? AI, I think is just going to be another layer that is going to a lot of opportunity as well as additional questions and scrutiny, and it's going to be really exciting and also really important to figure out how to best manage the educational component, and I think some of that's going to be actually understanding what the AI tools are doing, how they're working, how we're comfortable with them, what are the services that they're providing. If we were to buy AI tooling for transaction monitoring alerts or checking our SARS before we submit them or completing RFIs for our banking partners, how are we confident that those AI tools are working in a manner that is effectively managing our risk? I don't know the answer to that yet, right, because still figuring this out, but I'll be excited to see where it leads from an actual risk and tooling perspective.

Ari Redbord (21:35):

Yeah, it's extraordinary. I think I've never seen anything move faster in our lifetimes than the technologies moving right now, particularly in this space, and I've been thinking a lot. TRM has been thinking a lot about leveraging in our tool today, we leverage it in a lot of our processes, but it's also look, I mean now we're seeing bad actors supercharge their activity. What does KYC look like in the age of DeepFakes? It's this very sort of scary moment, but I'm pretty confident that we'll be able to develop technology to meet that moment, but I think it's really interesting to hear how everyone is thinking about this right now. I think it's really top of mind

Kate Eyerman (22:08):

And I think some of the developing technology here is to your point about KYC HPAs, it's going to be digital identities and digital fingerprints and what additional digital identity can you attach to your token or can you attach to your smart contracts so you understand where these assets have moved along the blockchain so you can actually think through from a KYC, your customer perspective, where has this money moved and you always touched it, and that's going to be really informative from a compliance perspective. It also has the potential to introduce a lot of questions about what is our risk appetite, what is our risk tolerance, how much digital identity do we need and how much information and where do we draw that line? And I think that that's where's going to be really important for us to continue to be risk-based in our approach, thoughtful and strategic.

Ari Redbord (23:00):

Really well said, and my answer is always something similar and that is there are technology solutions and there will continue to be for defi for this type of AI enabled activity as well. Look, one thing we hear all the time, particularly when I'm talking to compliance professionals on TRM Talks and in private is this idea of skating to where the puck is headed. How do we as compliance professionals, how do you as a CCO today think about skating to where the puck is headed when it comes to regulatory frameworks in the US but also globally?

Kate Eyerman (23:31):

Yeah, that's a great question. It's still what we were talking about earlier in terms of back to basics, right? If I am able to as a CCO of our company, if I am able to effectively ground us in what our fundamental A ML sanctions, compliance principles, armor, that is the bedrock that hasn't changed. What we're doing is we're building our mat and we're building it as the same time. Then we're both creating additional tools and controls in order to manage emerging risks, but your foundational components should be there and should just be what your foundation is to scale, and then you just shift or you walk down this corridor or you take a turn this way, and I think that it's relying on those foundational components, engaging with our policy makers to understand where their head is out and communicate what our challenges are. I also think there are a lot of opportunities in this space for regulatory sandboxes or no action letters or whatever the space is that also support in innovation so that we can be thoughtful with how we're building and creating while implementing those controls.

(24:46):

Because at the end of the day, if you're thinking about this through the lens that I try to keep myself honest to which is we're trying to prevent illicit activity, but we also want to grow these products and grow this company, you're going to come to the same conclusion. I don't want to be enabling any kind of bad activity. And so how can I look at this through our compliance lines in order to think about how the regulator might think about it and make sure we have appropriate controls to management, but also not do so in a way that is going to be stifling innovation, stifling growth, and that's where we're growing and building at the same time together.

Ari Redbord (25:28):

I love that. Clearly you've stayed in this space a long time, could have gone back to trad five, but there must be something about building the plane while you're flying it that you love. It's extraordinary. I mean, we don't sleep as much as normal people, but it's a very cool space to be in, right?

Kate Eyerman (25:41):

Yeah, it's super fun. Absolutely. I'm going trod by, I really like this space. It is to what you said just a moment ago in terms of you don't think that we've seen something quite like AI develop or build this quickly. That's fun. That's interesting. That's exciting. In my personal life, people would joke that, oh, you're a compliance officer that's so rigorous and mundane and boring, but those are the things I actually find to be interesting and exciting. And yes, it's compliance, but it's also related to things like digital asset and AI and new products that we haven't even thought of. And so it's super interesting and super fun and I want to bring Trackify along with us and I'm really excited about our banking partners that are really supportive of this space and want to work with us because I think there's so much opportunity there and it's a really exciting time to be on either side, even if I will personally prefer to be on the FinTech side.

Ari Redbord (26:41):

I absolutely agree. I think that we're building the between Defi and Tradify right now. I think a lot of really cool fintechs are leading the way there around stable coins. We had standard charter on recently just doing some amazing things, fidelity, right? This is not a defi tradify thing. I think in the longterm it's just like better rails building better payment and rails, and it's really fun to be part of that in the very early days. What do you tell folks, you're on here today, you're a professional at the highest level of what you're doing. What do you tell folks who sort of want to get into this space?

Kate Eyerman (27:12):

I mean, I think to me one of the things that's really exciting and interesting about this space is the opportunity to make an impact. And so I encourage people that are looking at digital assets or FinTech or something within this world to understand the why for them and the so what for them. Because if you understand what your motivator is and what your why is, then it is, it's just really motivating and it can take you in different directions and it can take you into crypto. And I think one of the things that makes people successful in this space is just that curiosity that why is this working? Why this is, how is this innovative? How is this new? What are the risks? How should I be thinking about what might be legacy AML require for legacy compliance requirements and this weird thing that no one's thought about before? So it's really curiosity and then look, there's some of that other just in terms of navigating the space, there's putting yourself out there, working with your network, not being bashful, finding opportunities to go to conferences and educate yourself. And there's so much opportunity right now. There are so many new tools, there are so many new companies. There are a lot of ways to get your foot in the door if it's something that you're interested in,

Ari Redbord (28:27):

Listen to Kate Eyerman on TRM Talks. It's a really good place to start as far as I'm concerned. Look, you talk about building the plane as you're flying it. That is stressful. It is fun, but it's crazy. What do you do when you're not building a safer financial system? What do you do for fun?

Kate Eyerman (28:41):

Yeah, I know that you run. I run also, but I also like to say that I take a risk-based approach to my personal hobbies and I do a lot of whitewater kayaking, and so that is very much, am I comfortable with the risk of going down this river or should I rethink that? But I love it. It gets me outdoors, it gets me away from my phone and away from my computer out in nature. It is exercise. It's a great community of people. It gets me to different parts of the country, different parts of the East coast in particular. It's beautiful. And yes, there's that risk element that I'd had folks in the past tell me like, of course you work in compliance and you have a very risky personal activity.

Ari Redbord (29:26):

That's amazing. So our CEO co-founder, Esteban Castano is a big whitewater kayaker. He will text me photos of really beautiful landscapes where he's sort of kayaking and out there. What are some of the coolest adventures you've had?

Kate Eyerman (29:40):

Alright, let me think of some good ones. Last summer I was on the Ottawa River up in Canada, which was a river that I had never quite experienced, huge. And so just the depth and size of it was really intimidating, but also just stunning. And I kayak that river for a week and I loved it.

Ari Redbord (30:02):

That's extraordinary. I love that. I was in Ottawa in the spring last year to speak to a bunch of RCMP and others on terrorist financing, and it was so gorgeous and I was running, not kayaking along the river, it was just this really, really beautiful place. And I said to everyone, Jessica Davis, who's a terrorism expert, she did it with us and I said, I'm totally moving to Ottawa. This is the best running city in the world. She's like, come back in January. Yeah, no, that's amazing. You mentioned being out west. I mean Colorado River,

Kate Eyerman (30:31):

Never done that. Most of the hiking that I've done has been either pretty east coast in New York, Vermont, Massachusetts. Very cool. And then some in the southeast. There's a lot of stuff in North Carolina

Ari Redbord (30:44):

When you're out there, are you camping?

Kate Eyerman (30:47):

It varies depending on the situation. So if it's just a weekends, then I was looking, OT River wasn't OT River was doing the same section of River over the course of a week, and so then we just had a cabin at night. So it just depends on the circumstances.

Ari Redbord (31:01):

That's really cool. The red boards famously spent one night on the Colorado River, which was pretty amazing. Not whitewater just kind of cruising down there, but it was like cowboy camping on the banks of the river and

Kate Eyerman (31:12):

Totally, it's just about getting out.

Ari Redbord (31:15):

Yeah, just getting out there. And it was good for my little city kids to camp out on the river bank or something like this.

Kate Eyerman (31:20):

Yeah, it's an escape Look, we work so hard and when your job is really rooted in issues like money laundering and sanctions risks and regulatory issues and tight deadlines and all those other just work stresses that we all have, for me it's an escape.

Ari Redbord (31:38):

I can't think of a cooler hobby interest escape than that is particularly in the world that we live in. But I love the risk-based approach thing. That's amazing. Truly like, all right, what is the riskiest thing I need do

Kate Eyerman (31:49):

No, no more. Do I think that this is the risk that I want to take to take what is my management to this river?

Ari Redbord (31:56):

Oh, that's awesome. Yes. Kate, thank you so much for joining TRM Talks. This was an awesome conversation and thank you for the work that you do in our space. It's so important and we are so lucky to have you.

Kate Eyerman (32:06):

This was so fun. Thank you so much for having me.

Ari Redbord (32:12):

There are so many great takeaways from this episode, but I think the thing that probably resonated with me the most was this idea that there are so many different paths to compliance at the highest level, right? Kate is the CCO of one of really important crypto exchange, and yet her background is more policy. She was at the State department and the Treasury Department and then went to Tradify. I mentioned Noah Perlman, the CCO of Binance. He was an A USA like I was for many, many years prosecuting bad actors. Oftentimes we think about the nuts and bolts of compliance around deep compliance professionals throughout their career, and this is just an example of something different. And I really, really love that. And I think for folks who are listening, there are so many different paths to compliance. And then frankly, my favorite part was the kayaking thing, really, because you talk about risk-based approach.

(33:01):

I love this idea of like, Hey, when you stare at a river, you're taking a risk-based approach. Like, Hey, is this one I want to dive in? Or is this one I'm going to pass today? And it really just is such a perfect metaphor for what we do in the crypto space. I might leave the skate to where the puck is heading or building a plane while you're flying it and move to like, is this a river I want to kayak today? So really love the conversation and really so much of the personal shown through with Kate. On the next TRM Talks, I sit down with Congressman Bryan Steil, the Chair of the Financial Services Subcommittee on digital assets. If you love the show, leave a review wherever you're listening to it and follow us on LinkedIn to get the latest news on crypto regulation, compliance, and investigations.

TRM Labs (33:51):

TRM Talks is brought to you by TRM Labs, the leading provider of blockchain intelligence and anti-money laundering software. This episode was produced in partnership with Voltage Productions. The music for this show was provided by Ikoliks..

Ari Redbord (34:08):

Now let's get back to building.

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