The Golden State of Crypto: Regulating Digital Assets with Brynly Llyr, California DFPI

Ari Redbord (00:02):

I'm Ari Redbord and this is TRM Talks. I'm Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs, we provide blockchain intelligence software to support law enforcement investigations and to help financial institutions and cryptocurrency businesses mitigate financial crime risk within the emerging digital asset economy. Prior to joining TRM spent 15 years in the US federal government, first as a prosecutor at the Department of Justice, and then as a Treasury Department official where I worked to safeguard the financial system against terrorist financiers, weapons of mass destruction proliferators, drug kingpins, and other rogue actors. On TRM Talks, I sit down with business leaders, policymakers, investigators, and friends from across the crypto ecosystem who are working to build a safer financial system.

(00:52):

On today's TRM Talks, I sit down with Brynly Llyr, Deputy Commissioner for Digital Assets at DFPI. But first, inside the lab, where I share data-driven insights from our blockchain intelligence team. On today's Inside the Lab, we're examining how physical disruption intersects with digital finance. As detention centers in Northeast Syria destabilize and populations dispersed, centralized oversight weakened. Historically, these centers, particularly the Al Hal camp, were focal points for extremist linked fundraising campaigns, including appeals framed around humanitarian need. When populations fragment, digital fundraising often intensifies. Crypto and informal digital payment rails can facilitate cross-border support, networks, structured campaigns, recurring solicitations and facilitators, routing funds, create durable financial ecosystems. This is a pattern we've observed repeatedly and TRM has written extensively on Alhall and other camps. Physical hubs may collapse, but financial infrastructure adapts. When individuals disperse across unstable regions, digital fundraising channels can become more important, not less.

(02:07):

The investigative challenge now is connecting on- chain financial signals to shifting real world dynamics, ideology, displacement, and digital liquidity intersect in ways that require both contextual intelligence and financial mapping. El Hal may be gone, but the fundraising that it's supported is very much alive. And now I sit down with Brynly Llyr. Today I am here with my good friend and the deputy commissioner for California's DFPI, Brynly Llyr. Brynly, I have wanted to do this with you forever. Thank you so much for finally coming on TRM Talks.

Brynly Llyr (02:46):

Oh, it's so good to be here. And just listening to your intro, it just makes me smile so much. Yes, we're friends. This is so lovely.

Ari Redbord (02:52):

See your face and see you on here. And yeah, look, you and I have had so many fun, cool private conversations over the years and just really excited to sort of, I think, share in many respects what those conversations have been like, but in a more public way. Look, I joined TRM almost six years ago now, which is crazy. And I feel like I met you right about that time when I did what I think you should do when you join a new space and as you look around and you're like, "Who are the people that are doing really cool things and I need to get to know them?" And you have been one of those people in this space for a really long time. So that's exactly what I did. And you were at Celo, I believe.

(03:24):

Maybe had just gotten there, but just had this incredible background. But tell me a little bit about that background, how you ended up in this space, digital assets, blockchain, and how it's really become this passionate and I think really career journey for you.

Brynly Llyr (03:37):

It has been a while and it's so good to talk with you. It has been a while that I've been in the crypto space. It's been 10 years, over 10 years, because I officially got into the space in 2016. But going back further than that, I'm a lawyer. I'm a lawyer in tech. I've been a tech lawyer for over 20 years in California in Northern California and this intersection of law and tech and regulation and risk, it's so dynamic and so interesting. I've just continued to be in it. So in terms of the journey, started out as a litigator, went in-house a few years after that when I was working on some antitrust cases, I went in-house to eBay, which they were one of my clients. And when I got to eBay, I thought, let's be a general counsel. Let's figure out how I'm going to do this.

(04:23):

And so that's really why I went in-house and I started checking off the boxes of what I thought I needed to do as a general counsel. That was some corporate stuff and litigation I knew and I should know about cap tables and I should know about product and all of these things. So that's where I started really thinking about moving in-house. eBay then moved to PayPal. They were together, then they split. And then I became general counsel for the first time in 2016 when I joined Ripple. And if you think back 2016, that was really before there was a lot of the takeoff in this industry. I want to say I joined just a couple of months before things really took off. And why I've really enjoyed this space is it's this new bit of technology that helps you to reexamine things you already thought you knew in the law.

(05:16):

It adds this new dimension. So you think you know compliance and then you think about digital assets and the qualities of digital assets. And now you have to rethink compliance and compensation and all sorts of things. It's this new lens that you need to go back to basics of what are the risks? What are we concerned about? How do we think about this? And so starting in 2016, I was at Ripple for a couple of years. Then I moved to join the founding team of Celo, which was really exciting because I could be a lawyer but also work on the product. That was great. From there, I was there about four years. I went to the World Economic Forum. I was head of blockchain and digital assets. So did original research on where the space is going and what the possibilities are. And then three years ago there was this opportunity to come to the state and do my public service.

(06:07):

I joined the state to work on capital markets. And then in 2023, a couple of months after I got here, the Digital Financial Assets Law was passed and California was finally regulating specifically crypto businesses. And I was there and it seemed to be a fit and I applied for the job and I got it. And here I've been for the last three years rolling out this licensing framework.

Ari Redbord (06:32):

It's so exciting. And I think, look, like many of us, I was in the government and then left and joined the private sector. But one thing I sort of evangelize for all the time is how important it is for people who had that private sector experience to go back into government to really help inform the policymaking. You're obviously doing that today. Let's double click a litle bit in those early days at Ripple though. When you're talking about big companies that are really building in the space, Ripple was one of the very early ones. Tell me about what was that experience like?

Brynly Llyr (06:57):

Yeah, it was a great place to really learn deeply about the space. 2015, even though it was early, I was there 2016, but 2015 is when New York rolled out their Bit license and Ripple had one of the first Bit licenses. So it was one of the first crypto companies that was actually licensed when I got there. So we were figuring out what that relationship is with state regulators, what are they interested in. Really, I was doing a deep dive into the technology. So it was all so new. It wasn't as though I could go and take a class on blockchain in the law or crypto in the law. So much of those early days and what I really loved about that time was how I could just sit down with developers, sit down with the engineers and really understand what we had, how the ledgers worked, how they operated.

(07:53):

And I think that deep knowledge was so helpful because until you understand a bit about the technology, you can't understand where the risks are. And if you don't understand where the risks are, it's going to be hard to really think about how you apply law and regulation. So when I think back at those early days, what I loved so much was just the deep, deep learning and that learning on the ground where I was sitting with the engineers and really asking lots of questions and seeing how things worked.

Ari Redbord (08:22):

What did finally cause you to take that leap and say, "Hey, I really want to go in government, go to the other side with this. " I mean, you had this experience with a Bit license and then to go work on these similar issues in California just seems so cool to me to have that opportunity to build that.

Brynly Llyr (08:38):

Yeah, it really is cool. I feel really lucky to have been in the right place at the right time. Public service has always been really important to me. It's always been part of my career path. My early days as a lawyer, I worked with many former prosecutors and that I just saw that as part of the career arc. At some point you need to do your public service. It's important. It's important for all sorts of reasons because we can't have continued innovation unless we have good regulation and good regulated markets. It was always important to me to give back. And for everyone, I think doing your public service is really, really important. Government is really important. We have to nurture that as much as we do our products in our private sector. It's really important.

Ari Redbord (09:21):

Beautifully said. So with all of that, tell me a little bit about the Digital Financial Asset Law.

Brynly Llyr (09:26):

So in terms of DFAL, the Digital Financial Asset Law, it was finally signed into law in 2023, October 13th, 2023. It had been kind of pending years before that, but finally went into law. And I think part of what drove that to become a reality is just where we were in this industry and in the markets. We'd have the BIT license. BIT license had been around for 10 years. Well, now it's been around for 10 years, but eight or so years at that point. We had states that were regulating through money transmission, but we didn't really have anything in California that really looked at this industry holistically and to really think about how we license and manage the risks of this industry. And we're a really large economy. We're the fourth largest economy in the world and a lot happens here. So I think there was finally this understanding that we need to take steps to regulate because not doing so is a real problem.

(10:26):

We have scams and frauds and this comes from the FBI annual reports, the IC3 reports. Our scams and frauds in our state are the highest. We lead here and we love to lead, but not here, not here. So it was time. Something had to be done. So we had our governor sign this into law and the law is implemented. It finally goes into effect. We needed a bit more time to put it all together, but licensing finally goes into effect July 1, 2026.

Ari Redbord (10:56):

Tell me about that. If I'm a crypto business looking to engage in California on July 1 and beyond, how are you thinking about this issue? What would you say to those businesses? How are you thinking about regulating this space more broadly?

Brynly Llyr (11:08):

I think what we are showing here as we regulate crypto in California through the digital financial asset law, it's really so much bigger. This is really about how will we regulate emerging technology? And here's the thing, we can do it. We can do it thoughtfully. We can do it in a way that still preserves lots of innovation and responsible innovation. We can do it in a way that protects markets and consumers. This is really the beginning. And when we roll this out and we show how it's possible to do this in blockchain, that's not the end point. It is the this and point. So I think it shows what's possible.

Ari Redbord (11:45):

You mentioned that conversation that you have with industry. I can't think of anyone better to have it like eBay, PayPal, Ripple, Cell. You were on the other side of those conversations for years. How has that informed your philosophy on how you engage with industry? And maybe if you would just give me a little bit of that philosophy.

Brynly Llyr (12:04):

Yeah. I mean, in many ways I think I know what it's like to build compliance programs in the space. I know how dynamic it is. I also know that it comes down to really understanding your risks. And so having done that job, it's what I kind of open the door expecting someone to have done that kind of thinking. I think it's also helpful that I know something about the technology that we can get into conversations that are more deeply in the weeds on how something works and someone can explain to me how they've managed the risk because of how a product is designed. That's really useful, I think, because when we talk about this space where everything is programmable, which it is in the digital asset space, compliance shouldn't be an afterthought. Risk shouldn't be an afterthought. You can actually design it into your product.

(12:53):

So I think part of my experience, it's helpful because we can have deeper conversations about actually the design of what has been built and why the design itself, it addresses the risks we know exist in this space.

Ari Redbord (13:05):

It has been something I think so cool, and I'm not sure I appreciated when I was in government, but how willing most people in government, state, federal are willing to have conversations with industry to learn more about their compliance programs, where they're coming from. I feel like you're a great example of that. We talked a little bit about licensing, a litle bit about that sort of engagement. There's enforcement too. I mean, hopefully it's a last resort and it's the stick piece of this when you're a regulator. Talk to me a little bit about how DFPI has seen enforcement in this space over the last few years.

Brynly Llyr (13:37):

I mean, I think you're right. What we want to see is compliance. What we want to see is a good, healthy industry. I mean, because if you have good responsible business, that's great. That means it's employing folks. That's great. It means it's serving customers and the customers are satisfied with the services.You want good functioning compliant products out there. So that's the first. We want compliance. That said, and there are parts of the Digital Financial Asset Law that went into effect much earlier than what we're talking about now. So licensing goes into effect July one, 2026, but there were some provisions that went into effect for crypto kiosks as early as January one, 2024 and then additional provisions in 2025, January, 2025. So we've had a couple of years as we're getting ready for licensing, a couple of years where we do have some oversight over part of the industry and we've been able to really have some good conversations about what's happening.

(14:38):

So when we have those conversations, first we want to know what these businesses are doing. Are they complying with the law? And where they have misunderstandings, we can help them understand and get compliant. But where we have a lack of compliance, we have taken enforcement actions because it's important. The law is the law, you need to follow it. And if you're not and you're not making substantial efforts to follow the law, that is where we have enforcement. It's another way to send the message. And these aren't small infractions. I mean, these are larger infractions and they're real victims. So you'll see a number of those out there, those enforcement actions.

Ari Redbord (15:18):

It's interesting. I testified, I don't know, a couple months ago before the New York State legislature on these scams and types of activity that you mentioned California's a leader in. Talk me through how you see this. What I consider to be a true score, this is an epidemic that Americans are facing. From a California perspective, how are you thinking about it? And I asked you that knowing that you think really, really deeply about this issue.

Brynly Llyr (15:38):

Yeah. I mean, I think the losses are extraordinary and they're deeply personal and they affect people's lives, period. I mean, really affect deeply people's lives, Californian's lives. So it's so important that we take it seriously. I think in many ways when we see the scams and frauds today, it is a flourishing business. These are global criminal enterprises that are incredibly sophisticated with their techniques. In many ways, we almost don't have a chance. I mean, the way that these scams are so well thought through and executed to just take over our reasoning and to have us do things that we ordinarily would never do.

(16:20):

So yes, we know that there are parts of our population that are exceptionally vulnerable, elderly and now young people. When you look at the last IC3 report, now you see numbers 17 and younger, that's the age of my kids. This is really serious. So when we think about that, the question that I ask is, how is this possible? How is it possible? Now right now, because crypto isn't everywhere, you cannot call someone and immediately get a crypto payment. You have to go through an intermediary. So this is why a law like the Digital Financial Asset Law is so important where individuals, if you're against an individual against a global criminal organization that is highly sophisticated, this intermediary becomes extremely important because they will make the difference between scam being effective or not at all.

(17:15):

And so if we hold these businesses that make the scams possible or not accountable to a standard of really understand fraud patterns, really understand what these things look like because you have this exceptional amount of data and you can look in and when you're looking at data, it's dispassionate. You're not going to be in this place where you are acting out of fear. You can be unemotional looking at data, looking at patterns and ideally stopping them, slowing them down. This link between the scammer and the scammed, I think I did it this way before, the scammer and the scam, it's exceptionally important. And we can ask those businesses to meet this standard to see these patterns and to stop these patterns and that ultimately can make a real difference.

Ari Redbord (18:00):

We've seen state financial authorities put out guidance and advisories around the use of blockchain analytics tools from regulated entities. Obviously that's a very much a piece of what you're describing here. Talk me through how you see technology being used from a compliance perspective, those unique qualities of blockchains that allow us to do that type of work.

Brynly Llyr (18:18):

I mean, I think it's even before blockchain because working for and at technology companies way back to 2004, five, six, where you have data and you have data tied to your transaction patterns, you can get very sophisticated very quickly on what certain behaviors look like early, early on. So now we have blockchain, which gives us a lot more data, but the discipline here is use the data you have to look for patterns. I mean, that's really the opportunity here that I see and it's just the opportunity is just that much more vast when we get to all of the data that we have available on blockchains, right?

Ari Redbord (19:04):

Absolutely. I mean, I often think of this these days more and more like, look, we're in this really unique moment in human history where the private sector has all of this data. And you've seen that forever with eBay and PayPal even in those early days and the public sector has all of the authorities and how do we ensure that the public sector has all the data? And I often argue for more authorities for the private sector, we'll see if that takes. But hey, let us go after bad guys in a way that we can. But I think that's really what you're talking about and we now have AI that we can run over these enormous data sets. I know thinking through AI from a compliance perspective, from a regulatory perspective is a priority for you also.

Brynly Llyr (19:44):

And here, I think you're touching on something that I want to go back to and that is how do we use this opportunity? So I think about regulating in the crypto space, that's what we're doing, but really it is about how do we regulate emerging technologies? That's really what it's about. And this is the first of what will be many. And how do we regulate in a way that we can be as proactive in our supervision as possible? I mean, blockchain really allows that where if you think back to how we regulate banking and money transmission and other kind of financial services, we have to ask questions and wait for the response because there isn't this view into global patterns. We don't have that with blockchain and we're probably not going to have that with more and more of the emerging technologies. So how do we use this as a way that we think about ways that we can be much more proactive and proactive in a way that is good for consumer protection and good for markets, but also puts even less stress on the companies.

(20:46):

If we can see it, we don't need to ask. That means your resources don't need to be put toward responding to my inquiry. At the same time, it means you should really be managing your risk because you don't want me to find it before you find it. So I think it does a number of positive things.

Ari Redbord (21:03):

I just started thinking to myself that I'm not talking about crypto anymore all the time. I'm talking about just financial markets and how to regulate them. And it used to be, I always used to think, "Oh no, I'm thinking about how to regulate crypto markets." And I think that's something that has changed in my mind over just even the last few months that we're talking about how do we use technology because it's all technology and it's AI over everything and it's how should we think about using those tools as opposed to just, "Hey, this is a crypto specific thing and we can put crypto specific tools or regulations around that. "

Brynly Llyr (21:33):

And we should want that if we care about things like preventing money laundering and continuing crime, we should care that we are forward leaning into these proactive technologies that help to give us a view of what's happening so that we can take more decisive action. Money laundering is not new. We know that. It's been around a very long time and it happens through to traditional financial services as well. So in so many ways, I think of this as regulating crypto is a use case like let's show how it's done and then let's think about where else we can apply that.

Ari Redbord (22:06):

The other thing you said that I thought was really, really interesting is this idea that the regulator now has this bird's eye view over their regulated ecosystem and that's really interesting. And of course you brought even more nuance to it with like, well, now the regulator kind of has to do it, but the financial institution knows that the regulator has this visibility. They're not relying on sort of siloed reporting from that entity. That's like a really interesting question for both the regulator and the regulated entity, right?

Brynly Llyr (22:34):

Yeah. But ultimately where that goes is I think we have sharper, better compliance because the risk is if you don't manage your risks, it's going to be clearly evident to your regulator and that's a very uncomfortable position to be in. So I think we think about how we regulate anything. We regulate financial services and money transmission and crypto. We don't just regulate through the law. We also regulate through markets and we regulate through any number of mechanisms. In some ways we're kind of changing the calculus a litle bit here. So when the regulator has that bird's eye view and can see what's happening, there is more and more an incentive to make sure that you are more tightly managing your risks.

Ari Redbord (23:22):

So what does great look like here? If you're to look back on in a year at DFAL, what would success look like in your mind at least?

Brynly Llyr (23:31):

One, I think we have a good experience from the company perspective. And I think about who do we serve? I clearly serve the people of California, no question. I am here to protect markets in California. I'm here to protect the economy in California. That means I also care about the businesses working in California. So when I think of great, great looks like if you have applied for a license, you've had an experience where, first of all, you feel like it's been fair. It's been fair. You've submitted your application. We've told you where your application is. We've told you how we're going to be decisioning it. When you have questions, we're available. It is a good product from a company perspective. It doesn't feel like a black box. It feels like you understand what the requirements are, you feel like the questions are fair questions directed to your risk.

(24:24):

You feel like you've had a chance to be heard. And at the end of that, if you got your license, you're good to go and you know what the expectations are. And if you didn't get a license, you understand why and you have your right to appeal. I want it to feel fair. No surprises, it should feel fair. Now for the businesses, when we have this licensing moving forward, it should benefit your business. That means that you're no longer competing with a company who is cutting corners and not caring about compliance. It means that when you're competing for the business of Californians, you now have a more even playing field. That's success to me. That means that we have good, innovative, responsible businesses operating in our state and they feel like they've had a fair process.

Ari Redbord (25:12):

Yeah, absolutely awesome answer. And one thing I love about the answer too, and I don't know, just as I was listening to you, I have always been a huge believer in federalism. Since I was really young, I was that weird kid in seventh or eighth grade or even cared about federalism or knew what it was. I was like Alex P. Keaton or something, but I do. I think it's a really, really important part of who we are as Americans. And that sounded like such a federalist answer to me in that at the state you're closer to those businesses that are doing business in your state. You're closer to those citizens who are Californians in some way. Do you feel closer in this role?

Brynly Llyr (25:47):

I feel close. I mean, I'm a California. The reason why I wanted to do my public service here is that, I mean, California's really important to me. It's given me such opportunities. This is where I wanted to give back, but I think we should expect that at all government, honestly. Government is here to serve and that is what we should expect. I like that we've taken this perspective with the Digital Financial Asset Law where we think about the businesses as our customers, just like the consumers. We serve our consumers absolutely, but also the businesses are such an important part of our economy here. We need to treat our businesses with respect. Now there's another part to the answer that I have and that is how will I evaluate success in a year?

(26:28):

I think I have some really objective data that I will measure myself and our program against and that is the IC3 FBI report that comes out every year. So we will have had half a year under regulation in 2026. I am hoping to finally bring those numbers down. They're very, very high in terms of the level of scams and frauds that are turbocharged with crypto in California. We have such high numbers. I want to bring those numbers down. I want to protect the money of our elderly, our young people, our consumers in California. That's very important to me and that will be objective.

Ari Redbord (27:08):

I'm also hoping that we're going to get a lot more reporting as we roll out these types of programs. The conventional wisdom, I think AARP, maybe even FBI says only about 15% of victims report. So I think getting better also means we get that number up. So ultimately, I think before we get lower numbers, we may ultimately get higher numbers and it'll be interesting to see how we can really cull through that data. It's something I've been thinking a lot about because I think part of what we need to do is the type of public awareness that you're talking about being out there, having a law like this. I hope that it ends up with some increased reporting, but that means the numbers are going to go up. So I think that's just going to be a really interesting moment for folks like us who are trying to pin down some of these numbers.

Brynly Llyr (27:46):

And even if the number goes up because it's under-reported today, I'm okay with that.

Ari Redbord (27:51):

Totally.

Brynly Llyr (27:52):

I think being in government, I am accountable to the people, I'm accountable to markets. I need measures where I'm accountable to ... We're accountable, period. Government should work for people. So even if the number goes up because we are getting more complaints in because now people are aware of what the scams and frauds look like, that's fine. Let's work with that. Now we have our new benchmark. That's fine, but I'm going to be working towards that to bring that number down.

Ari Redbord (28:18):

Brynley, when you are not working for the people of California, which I think you probably always are, what are you doing? I mean, you relax a little, right? Yeah, every once in a while.

Brynly Llyr (28:30):

Yeah, I am a parent of three kids and right now I have two kids at home and they are enormous young men. And I think all that I do is it's either food prep or food clean. I do so much food prep. That is what I do. I don't know if it's so fun, but it is a lot of what I do. If I'm not thinking about digital assets, I am thinking about digital assets as I prepare huge tri-tips that will go on my table and be eaten.

Ari Redbord (29:01):

And yeah, look, I also, part of me thinks as cheesy as it may sound like some of the work that we're all doing out there is for them.

Brynly Llyr (29:07):

Absolutely.

Ari Redbord (29:09):

I do think a lot, I don't know if you think as much as I do these days about what AI means for the jobs that they will have opportunities and the jobs that'll be out there for them. I don't know that I have a great answer for it. It seems to be upending everything. I'm sure you see it every day.

Brynly Llyr (29:23):

I mean, as parents, of course we think about this. And I think where I lean is it's so important to go back to that broad liberal arts education where maybe you're not focused on one thing, but you're learning about a lot of things. You're really developing your critical thinking, you're getting interested in a variety of topics. You're refining your thinking and how you interact with people. It's almost like going back to those broader skills and learnings that's so important to being a citizen. That's where I lean.

Ari Redbord (29:59):

I'm actually in the same place, particularly around that relationships part, what can you do to make yourself a more interesting person to help build those kind of meaningful relationships? Because that's still the one thing robots can't do. Someone paid me a compliment recently that meant so much and I hadn't thought about it in this context, but they said, you know that in the age of AI, things like the TRM run club, this was in Miami when we had a hundred plus people out there a couple weeks ago and they're like, these things are more and more important. I was like, wow, I never thought about it in that context, but that's something that AI can't do. And what are those relationships? The thing that we're doing right now, AI can't do. And yeah, it's just like, what are the ways to prepare them for that?

(30:39):

I think more than anything else is what I think about and it's hard. I like the liberal arts idea that be more well-read, have a better perspective on art and culture.

Brynly Llyr (30:49):

We had the liberal arts education to prepare us to being citizens and I think we kind of forgot about that a little bit. I mean, it's really important to being a good citizen to be well-read and to have empathy and to have understanding about the experiences of other people.

Ari Redbord (31:03):

Wow. Bynly, seriously, thank you so much. It's always amazing to spend time with you, and this was a very cool public way to do it.

Brynly Llyr (31:10):

Thank you for having me.

Ari Redbord (31:15):

That was such a cool conversation. And I think in large part, I mean, the timing is really extraordinary. We're exactly a month away from July one where the California law goes into effect DFAL. And it's interesting. I mean, finally we're going to have a Bit licensed regime in California and I think it's going to create an environment where a lot of businesses are looking to get a license in one of the largest economies in the world. And I think to Brynly's point, her job is really to protect both the consumers in California, the citizens of California, but also California businesses who are going to really use having this license as a moat and should. So I think the timing is extraordinary. I think the other piece is obviously her background. I mean, she's worked in the most important financial services businesses in the world from eBay to PayPal to Ripple to Celo.

(32:02):

And now to have a regulator, to have someone from industry go over and have that level of engagement and build a regime like this is really, really extraordinary. Loved that conversation and so glad that you could hear from Brynlly today. On the next TRM Talks, I sit down with professor Brett Fauk, head of the Crypto and Society Lab at Penn.

(32:26):

If you love the show, leave a review wherever you're listening to it and follow us on LinkedIn to get the latest news on crypto regulation, compliance and investigations.

TRM Labs (32:37):

TRM Talks is brought to you by TRM Labs, the leading provider of blockchain intelligence and anti-money laundering software. This episode was produced in partnership with Voltage Productions. The music for this show was provided by iKOLIKS

Ari Redbord (32:53):

Now, let's get back to building.