Building the Infrastructure for the Stablecoin Moment with Paxos' Lesley Chavkin

Ari Redbord (00:02):

I am Ari Redbord and this is TRM Talks. I'm global head of policy. At TRM Labs, we provide blockchain intelligence software to support law enforcement investigations and to help financial institutions and cryptocurrency businesses mitigate financial crime risk within the emerging digital asset economy. Prior to joining TRM spent 15 years in the US federal government, first as a prosecutor at the Department of Justice, and then as a Treasury Department official where I worked to safeguard the financial system against terrorist financiers, weapons of mass destruction, proliferators, drug kingpins, and other rogue actors. On TRM Talks, I sit down with business leaders, policymakers, investigators, and friends from across the crypto ecosystem who are working to build a safer financial system.

(00:51):

On today's TRM Talks, I sit down with Paxos Global Head of Policy, Lesley Chavkin. But first Inside the Lab where I share data-driven insights from our blockchain intelligence team. Over the last several months, we've seen an astounding uptick in the number of so-called wrench attacks, violent incidents where criminals forcibly target crypto holders to extract private keys or wallet access. These attacks are no longer theoretical In Paris, assailants attempted to kidnap a crypto CEO's daughter and grandson at gunpoint in daylight, but were thwarted by bystanders. Earlier that month, the father of a crypto entrepreneur was abducted in Paris and had a finger severed to pressure his family into paying the ransom. In January, Ledger co-founder David Balland and his partner were kidnapped. His finger was also cut off. French police rescued both victims and arrested multiple suspects. These incidents extend well beyond France. In the US the Department of Justice recently charged individuals linked to a ransom for crypto home invasion conspiracy involving over $263 million in stolen assets. Separately, a Florida based gang led by Gilbert St. Felix received a 47 year prison sentence, the harshest US penalty yet for crypto related violent crime after orchestrating armed robberies across multiple states and forcing victims to transfer digital assets by physical force. In the UK and Canada home, invasions, knife point, robberies and impersonation scams have targeted crypto investors for thousands and even millions in digital assets.

(02:28):

Criminals pose as police exploit dating apps or wait for victims, they've surveilled online all to demand crypto transfers under duress. Why are wrench attacks escalating? Phil of M Labs notes that criminal groups already comfortable with violence are naturally migrating to crypto threat drawn by irreversible nature of transactions and the visibility of wealth online. How can individuals reduce risk? TRM recommends operational security refrain from publicly revealing holdings or wallet links, bolster physical safety through home security and vetted transportation, use multisignature wallets and educate family members on identifying suspicious behavior or threats from an enforcement standpoint, blockchain tracing remains essential after wrench attacks. When stolen crypto moves on-chain TRM can trace funds, identify laundering routes and support prosecutions. As with the St. Felix case where law enforcement and Coinbase's global intelligence team traced stolen funds through exchanges to secure a landmark conviction, ultimately wrench attacks represent a dangerous conversions. The physical brutality of violent crime fused with the value rich mobility of cryptocurrency. Protecting high net worth crypto holders now demands a holistic strategy combining digital privacy, physical vigilance, and forensic intelligence. And now I sit down with my friend and former Treasury colleague, Lesley Chavkin.

(03:55):

Today I am joined by friend, former Treasury colleague and Global Head of Policy at Paxos Lesley Chavkin. Lesley, I am so excited to have you on TRM Talks. Before we get into stablecoins and legislation and all the wild stuff happening in the US and globally, would love to talk a little bit about you and your journey. It's one of my favorites of anyone in this space really from Treasury to blockchain technology to stablecoins and now really one of the leading voices of policy in our space. Tell me about your journey a little bit. How did you get interested in the technology and tell me about your background.

Lesley Chavkin (04:30):

Yeah, of course. I'm excited to talk about it because I think it may look a little bit meandering from the outside, but it was very much an intentional move in this direction. And I'll start now and go backwards. So right now, obviously at Paxos, previously I was at the Stellar Development Foundation, which is a great organization that supports the growth and development of the Stellar Network, which is a blockchain. And then I had spent some time at JP Morgan before that, but really where I got my career started after graduate school was in the US Government. And I happened to graduate right after the peak of the great financial crisis. So I thought I was going to go into development economics and then everything dried up, but who was hiring but the US Government, and there are just so many cool opportunities that I didn't know existed when I went in and I started off in the intelligence community, but eventually I moved to the Treasury Department and I spent many years there in a number of different roles and I never actually had anything about digital assets formally in my portfolio, but I think both you and I were there at a time when it just kept coming up.

(05:46):

It did not matter what you worked on, you had to have some familiarity with digital assets. And where I really got the exposure was I was an attache, financial attache, for the Treasury Department in the Middle East. I was based out of Doha, Qatar. And at the time, this was 2017 through 2020, at the time a lot of the countries in the region were updating their AMLCFT frameworks because they had FATF mutual evaluations on the horizon. That's the global anti-money laundering watchdog. So these countries were, I think really seized with how they could modernize their whole AMLCFT frameworks. And one of those areas that they wanted to address was elicit finance risks around crypto. And I remember when I had some initial conversations with the cuties, with Kuwaiti, with others, they kept coming to me and saying, Lesley, how do we deal with this crypto issue?

(06:43):

How is it used? How do we identify it? How do we follow it? And I kept saying, your real challenge is not this crypto stuff, it's traditional issues like bulk cash smuggling or abuse of money services businesses. But to their credit, I think they were really ahead of their time in thinking through some of these new risk areas and alright, we have this new technology on the horizon, how do we create a framework that addresses it? So that's how I got into it. And even when I got back to the Treasury Department, I had finished my tour, I continued to be really interested in the whole digital asset space, but particularly around payments because when I lived in the Middle East, you had so many communities there that are expats that are reliant on remittances and that is such a big industry. I mean there are just so many challenges with that. It's expensive, it's time consuming. So once I got more familiar with the idea of stablecoins, which I don't even think we had that term at the time, but this digital dollar concept that could address some of those payments inefficiencies, I was really hooked.

Ari Redbord (07:45):

Really extraordinary. It's interesting if you look back at your time at Treasury, and I think anyone who leaves TFI and it's a very close knit group, we all spend a lot of time together and now it's fun to see how many people are in this industry. What was the most impactful part for you of working at the US Treasury Department? What was the most meaningful part of those years for you?

Lesley Chavkin (08:03):

Oh, there were so many big moments, but I think for me, one of the most impactful moments was getting to work really closely with the government of Qatar as they updated their entire legal framework for AMLCFT and to work so closely with the foreign government to be working with all of my counterparts here on the US and really kind of mobilizing everyone to that goal was huge. And to think you're not just doing it for the sake of getting a law passed, right? You're doing it because ultimately there's a huge national security benefit to us and a huge benefit to having a much safer global financial system if you can make sure that your partners have the right frameworks in place that really have the right protections for their local financial system. So far and away, that was my favorite accomplishment.

Ari Redbord (08:48):

Really Cool. And I feel like move seamlessly into your time at Stellar. You talked about payments and remittances and there's just always been so much focus at Stellar on the use of blockchain technology for remittances, for humanitarian aid to reach the sort of unbanked corners of the world. And obviously that was a huge focus for you on the policy side. Would you talk a little bit about your experience at Stellar and really sort of what it meant?

Lesley Chavkin (09:10):

Stellar was really my first step directly into the digital asset space. I had been working at a bank at the time and I touched on digital assets, but I think with any novel technology, you're never really going to understand it unless you're directly working in that industry. I could watch it from afar, but you sort of need to touch, taste and feel it. And so I had gone to Stellar after SDF after leaving the bank, and it's a fantastic team there. And I think what they've always done right is there's a million projects happening on the Stellar blockchain, but they were really focused on sort of payments utility. And it hasn't always been kind of the bright shiny object, the sexy object, but it had so much real world value. So to see all these really cool projects on there, to move money to work with humanitarian aid organizations to do these real world money movements was huge. And that's one thing that really attracted me to them is they weren't building these aspirational projects. They were really utilizing that blockchain for these very cool payment use cases.

Ari Redbord (10:15):

Yeah, it's incredible. Oftentimes, I think within the crypto space, we're all talking about use cases and really presenting those to policymakers and other folks who are influential in the space. I remember a video that was all over social media, I think right towards the end of your time, maybe at Stellar, but really showed the utility in South or Central America of sending USDC on Stellar maybe, which I thought was absolutely extraordinary. And something I was sharing with everybody to show that, hey, look, there's a lot more than investment in Bitcoin and meme coins and that sort of thing in the space. There's real utility here. That's why Stellar really stands out to me in terms of Stellar the network and also the work that you were doing at the foundation.

Lesley Chavkin (10:55):

And I think one thing, again, credit to the team over there, they've always been so focused on educating policymakers and regulators, whether it's in the US or abroad, just about how the technology works and really breaking it down and making it something that people can understand. So I think a lot of the increase in knowledge around just how blockchain operates is due to the SDF team.

Ari Redbord (11:18):

Well, these are my words, not yours, but I think that all of your work at Treasury, at the bank at Stellar have really led you to this moment. And it does feel a bit like a moment, right this moment in time where we just have passage of the GENIUS Act, the first ever crypto legislation of any kind meaningfully in the United States. We see MiCA in Europe, which is really all about stablecoins. We see traditional financial institutions engaging in the space. Paxos is obviously such an important player, but would you just characterize this moment in time as you see it in sort of Paxos role in it?

Lesley Chavkin (11:53):

Yeah, I think right now we finally have a roadmap. We didn't have that for so long because a lot of the activity in this space, a lot of the stablecoin activity, it was happening in a bit of a crypto silo. And a lot of that was because regulated financial institutions, payments companies, fintechs, they were really interested in this and saw utility in it, but then had questions around what they could or could not do. What were their regulators going to say was allowable stepping into this space now that you have these frameworks shaping up all over the world, it gives us some real structure to this. And I think that's what you need for it to really take off. I think stablecoins can really accelerate now because it's a safe place for consumers, for enterprises to get involved with now because a real regulatory structure to it.

Ari Redbord (12:44):

Absolutely. And let's start to dig in a bit, right? I think Paxos in particular has always really leaned into regulation and compliance. Talk me through what this means, like you said, how are we now bringing stablecoin, stablecoin issuers into these regulated frameworks? What is really the meaning of GENIUS as you see it?

Lesley Chavkin (13:01):

I think from our perspective, GENIUS is such a fantastic development for the industry because it almost sort of reinforces the approach that Paxos has taken from the beginning. So now, very soon, once this law goes into effect, you have to be prudentially regulated in the US to issue stablecoins, and I think that's the right way to do it. Paxos was sort of early on to this whole game. So the company started in 2012, but we became a regulated trust company. The first one authorized to work in the digital asset space by the New York Department of Financial Services in 2015. There was only a concept of stablecoins that didn't even have a term yet, but we were already focused on getting prudential oversight because it has a real business benefit. It tells your we work B2B, and it sends a clear message to those B2B counterparts that you are safe, you're sound, you're secure, you have to uphold all the requirements that they would expect out of any other regulated partner. And so I think it just sends a lot of confidence to the business partners, to the end consumer, and you have to have a regulated structure to do that. So we are thrilled to see GENIUS pass because that's now mandated across the industry. And I think for us, we have now roughly 10 years of experience being regulated in this space, and I think we can help be a model for other companies that are coming in and starting to get regulated as a result of GENIUS.

Ari Redbord (14:31):

It's a great point because you definitely see, and we can delve into this a little bit more in a moment, we definitely see traditional financial institutions talking about issuing a stablecoin, custodying digital assets offering financial services to crypto firms, but they're leaning in because now they have at least in part the rules of the road that they need. But Paxos has obviously leaned in for a while as well as a number of other crypto firms out there. Would you talk a little bit about your model? I think it's a little different than other stablecoin issuers, and maybe just sort of talk through what Paxos does exactly, so folks on the line understand.

Lesley Chavkin (15:02):

Yeah, so big picture, Paxos is a regulated blockchain and tokenization infrastructure platform. Like I said, we work B2B and one of our big lines of business, so to speak, is stablecoin issuance. So we issue a number of US dollar stablecoin products, a few of them that might be well known to your listeners. One is PayPal, USD PYUSC, which is a US dollar stablecoin that we issue on behalf of PayPal. And that was, I think it was initially launched in summer of 2023. And it was a huge moment when PYUSC came out because it really took stablecoins out of this trading and speculation place and moved it into this big and boring world of payments in something that's really important and every day that you don't even think about, but sort of fuels how we get by every day from paying for your coffee to paying for your kids afterschool care and to be able to partner with a company like PayPal that's such a household name and so trusted I think was a really big moment for the industry and thinking about what's next for stablecoins.

(16:06):

So we have PYUSD and we launched something called US Global Dollar USDG and Global Dollar Forms the core of what we call the Global Dollar Network, which is a group of enterprises including Kraken, Robinhood, many others that are really invested in growing stablecoins and pushing forward stablecoin adoption. So we're really excited about both of those stablecoins. And I think to your question about our model, something that has been somewhat unique about how Paxos has approached this all from the very beginning is that we have always issued products under regulated structures. So whether that's in the US under New York DFS, whether that's in Singapore under the Monetary authority of Singapore, we also earlier this year opened up an affiliate in the EU that's regulated by the regulator in Finland. It's always been really core to how we do business to be regulated ourselves and to issue regulated products. Other issuers have taken different approaches. There are some that issue in the US just through money transmission licenses. That's one way to do it. But from our perspective, and I think GENIUS codifies it and puts it into law, is that you really do need to have that prudential oversight to really give a safe and trusted product in the market.

Ari Redbord (17:31):

Fantastic. You mentioned essentially MiCA, Finland, the monetary authority of Singapore has had stablecoin regulation for years, and you look sort of globally, right? We're very focused on GENIUS, but GENIUS is a second mover.

Lesley Chavkin (17:44):

Yeah.

Ari Redbord (17:44):

Would you talk a little bit about how you think about global regulatory frameworks, the good, bad and the ugly, and the importance of them interacting?

Lesley Chavkin (17:51):

Yeah, it's a great question. And there's all this talk about convergence, convergence, convergence. I think we've got a ways to go on that. If you look at some of these frameworks, whether it's MiCA in the EU or what Singapore has developed, what the UK has under development as well, they're not exactly the same. There's nuances among them, right? There's nuances in the type of reserve assets they can use. So there are differences. I think we're moving towards generally the same basic principles around consumer protection and market transparency, but we've got a ways to go there. I think from my perspective, we have an affiliate in Singapore, so very familiar with sort of the MAS framework there. And what I love about the MAS framework, it's sort of inspired by what DFS put in place in New York feels very familiar. I think it's got really good sort basic pillars to it.

(18:46):

And you also have a regulator there that works very well with industry, very forward-leaning and on the edge of wanting to get financial innovation. Like I said, we also have an entity in the eu. And I think the EU to me, is a really fascinating place for stablecoins because MiCA itself is so comprehensive, so big, and it was the first jurisdiction out of the gate with comprehensive crypto legislation. But does it run the risk of maybe setting the bar so high that it makes it really hard for local European startup stablecoin assures to get off the ground? I think that's one question we all have around MiCA is does it sort of privilege the bigger institutions, banks in Europe over the smaller European startups? So we're watching it really closely, and I think the Europeans right now are having this very deep debate over even the concept of global stablecoins. So non-euro stablecoins, and there's, I think they're of two minds about it. You have some parts of the European policy apparatus that they recognize that what 99% of the global stablecoin market is US dollar stablecoins. And so they want to be part of that. They don't want to cut Europe out of that. And then you have another segment that really is so concerned about European monetary sovereignty. They want to make it really challenging for US dollar stablecoins to operate there.

Ari Redbord (20:19):

I mean, both views of the world are understandable, and we get asked this a lot. I don't know where we ultimately land, but I think your point is 99% of fiat-backed stablecoins are dollar denominated. That's a really hard hurdle for European policy makers.

Lesley Chavkin (20:34):

And I think, again, we'll see if this argument works over there, but I think right now you can't ignore that US dollar denominate stablecoins. That's just what the stablecoin market is. But that's, that's dynamic. And I think as stablecoins evolve, as you have more adoption globally, you're going to see local currency stablecoins pop up. So I don't think that 99% figure is going to be a forever state. We're going to see that change.

Ari Redbord (21:03):

Absolutely. Look, I think we've already kind of gotten into these two topics, but they feel so connected and so important to me. And on the one hand, you have the policymaking and the legislation GENIUS sort of embodies that, but at the same time, you have the growth from a business perspective of the ecosystem that you've described, your partnership with PayPal, traditional financial institutions starting to talk about issuing stablecoins, custoodying digital assets. Would you talk a little bit about what you're seeing in terms of more mainstream adoption or financial institutions engaging in the space?

Lesley Chavkin (21:34):

Yeah, I think we can see it just by the amount of interest we're getting just anecdotally with Global Dollar Network, because I think part of the problem was, the regulatory environments under the previous administration in the US was really, I think, constricted. It was really hard for banks, for other regulated players, even if they wanted to experiment in the space for them to know what was permissible. So they kind of stayed out of it. So right now, you have GENIUS. There is, like I said, this kind of developing roadmap for how all of this will look and they're really eager to get in there, but they might not have built up the in-house technical expertise because over the past X number of years, that's not a space they could really play in. So now I see this huge opportunity for banks and for other players to partner with the crypto natives, Apax Os, like others who have a technical infrastructure who have been working in the industry for years, but are also regulated. And so now they don't need to build all this in-house. It's an expensive undertaking to be able to issue a stablecoin, but now you could look around and perhaps partner with an infrastructure provider. So you kind of skip over having to do this all on your own and you're working in partnership with a crypto native to issue a stablecoin. So I think we're going to see a lot more of that, and we certainly get a lot of interest from across the ecosystem about that.

Ari Redbord (23:02):

I love that. I feel like we're living parallel lives from a business perspective right now because we're having those same fun conversations with large financial institution, honestly, medium and small too at this point on compliance. And you're having it on the infrastructure on the sort of business building side of the house, you must feel the same way. Wow. It was hurry up and wait and now it's like, let's go.

Lesley Chavkin (23:23):

Yes, exactly. And I think what's really cool from my perspective is just the opportunities that are there for smaller bank players, even community banks. They want to stay competitive. They want to be in this space, and this is a great opportunity for them to work alongside with stablecoin infrastructure providers so they don't left behind and they can take advantage of this and kind of innovate and modernize for the current day. So I'm very excited to see what the smaller players do in this space.

Ari Redbord (23:55):

It's so cool. That's amazing. We got into compliance a little bit and it's inevitable on TRM Talks. So talk me through how you, Lesley, but then sort of more broadly, Paxos views, financial crime compliance, anti-money laundering, those types of issues.

Lesley Chavkin (24:12):

I mean, obviously it is a very high priority for us. We've invested a lot of resources in our compliance program over the years, and I think just as a Lesley perspective, I think sometimes I have to remind myself just how far we have come by virtue of blockchain technology. There were many times in a previous life working at the Treasury Department and working on illicit finance issues, it can be such an incredible blackhole. It's so hard to track and trace and be able to know where the sources of illicit funds are going to going from and the fact that you now have so much transparency thanks to the technology and that you could have a sense of where funds are going, who they're going to. I mean, it is just huge. It's just not something that you can do with physical cash. And it is such a revolution, I think, for a lot of us that have worked in this AMLCFT space for a long time.

(25:11):

I think also too, on the stablecoin front, the whole idea of seize and freeze, right? The ability to do that, and again, I want to be cautious here because you can't, seize and freeze is a very important tool, but one that you only want to use as an issuer with a lawful court order. You want to make sure that you have a real basis for that. But that's incredible that you would be able to seize and freeze funds in the case of some really malicious activity. So to me, it's incredible. We take it very, very seriously. And I think in talking with my compliance colleagues, there's just so many interesting applications of AI tooling, analytics tooling.

Ari Redbord (25:49):

It's super interesting. Is there any one thing or a couple things that you look back at government, at your former colleagues at Treasury, at SEC, at DOJ and say, Hey, I wish they understood this, or I wish this is something that I could communicate them in this way that you see sort of every day at Paxos?

Lesley Chavkin (26:08):

That's a great question. I think one of the challenges, I don't think it's been addressed yet, but when we were there, there were ethics restrictions in place on employees at the Treasury Department. If you worked on any element of crypto policy, you could not hold a meaningful amount. And so I think what that meant is that is very hard to actually play around with a lot of just the basic infrastructure that's out there. So you as a senior policy advisor at the Treasury Department, you understand broadly the illicit finance risks and the controls that are available about seize freeze, about what TRM offers, but you don't play around with this stuff on a daily basis and really understand how it's integrated into, say, your PayPal app, how it actually works, how you buy stablecoins on an exchange. So I think if I could go back, what I would say is try to get as many demos from industry as you can to fill that void so you actually understand how it's being used day to day. And that's like this is the really vanilla stuff. When you get to things like lending and defi, it gets more and more complex. And I think that's even more reason for the folks that are working on the line to get exposure to it, because that helps them understand how can we support industry here and also uphold the integrity of their international financial system. You can meet both of those goals, but I think it takes a bit more exposure to how this stuff actually works in the wild.

Ari Redbord (27:41):

I love that answer so much, and it's a relatively easy fix. I mean, when I got to TRM, really the first thing I did was open a Coinbase account, spin up a meta mask wallet, I made an NFT and minted it and use some defi protocols. I feel like those are the things that you need to be able to do to touch and feel the technology. It's funny, even in the last couple of months, I've been trying to do the same thing with AI where I make these AI videos of myself and I put them on LinkedIn. It's funny, but honestly, it's really me just trying to figure this stuff out and try to understand a little bit better how it works. And if you're going to be regulating this space and technology, it's so important to understand it. So I think what a cool answer.

Lesley Chavkin (28:19):

I feel the same way about AI. I always have to remind myself, I have to play around with this stuff.

Ari Redbord (28:24):

You totally do.

Lesley Chavkin (28:25):

I will never understand it. Right? And I think that's just human nature. You can't observe from afar. You have to get your hands dirty with it.

Ari Redbord (28:32):

No, absolutely. Let me leave you on this. You are so busy and such an important voice in the policy space. I truly believe I see you everywhere in the world. What are the types of things you're doing when you're not traveling the world, talking about crypto policy, meeting with policymakers and regulators and evangelizing for the stablecoin ecosystem?

Lesley Chavkin (28:52):

Well, these crypto markets, they're 24/7 Ari, so we don't get

Ari Redbord (28:57):

Always on.

Lesley Chavkin (28:58):

Always on. But when I do have a little bit of downtime, I am an incredibly mediocre golfer. So I do golf, a bit including, I played golf in Ireland earlier this year in perhaps the worst round of golf in my life, and I think I am like a lesson to everyone. I'm so committed to eventually getting okay at golf. I don't give it up. So I like to leave your listeners with that.

Ari Redbord (29:24):

I love that so much. You are a very humble person. So how good are you at golf?

Lesley Chavkin (29:30):

I think I'm fine. I think I'm fine, but I wouldn't say good. It's pretty bad. But if I keep it up, if I keep it up, I think 15, 20 years from now, I could be passable. I mean, at the very least, my dad's advice was like, it gets you out. You can walk around a little bit. You get some fresh air. I mean, and if you play poorly, meh. At least you got a nice day in the sun.

Ari Redbord (29:50):

I love it. And you're going to train by joining the TRM Run Club.

Lesley Chavkin (29:54):

I'm making this commitment. I will do it, Ari.

Ari Redbord (29:59):

This is highly public. You get a hat. They're really nice hats.

Lesley Chavkin (30:03):

I know. I am committed now.

Ari Redbord (30:04):

It'll be fun. Amazing. I love it, Lesley, seriously, this was even more fun than I had hoped. Thank you so much for joining TRM Talks.

Lesley Chavkin (30:12):

Thanks, Ari.

Ari Redbord (30:17):

This was such a cool conversation. And Lesley's been a friend for a long time, at Treasury and now in the crypto space. But what really struck me is that she's so prepared for this moment, and it really is a moment, right? I think we are in the stablecoin moment. Angela Ang on a webinar the other day called it stablecoin policy madness or something like that. And it really is. You have GENIUS, entirely stablecoin, the only crypto legislation passed in the United States. You have MiCA, which is really about stablecoins, and it's the EU framework for digital assets, MAS in Singapore, Dubai, Vara, the uk. You talk about New York Department of Financial Services, which came up a few times, but really we're in this moment from a policy perspective, but really most interestingly to me is the policy is driving the business. And I loved how she was able to now at Paxos, Hey, we're seeing large financial institutions, medium-sized community banks coming to Paxos and saying, Hey, can you help us build the rails, the infrastructure for stablecoins?

(31:15):

And I feel like between Treasury and then JP Morgan and Stellar, which was all about financial inclusion, and now Paxos Lesley is so ready to meet that moment that we're in. And I love thinking about it this way and it really crystallized for me in the conversation today. On the next TRM Talks, I sit down with Wee Kee Toh of  JP Morgan to talk how the bank is working on digital assets. If you love the show, leave a review wherever you're listening to it and follow us on LinkedIn to get the latest news on crypto regulation, compliance, and investigations.

TRM Labs (31:52):

TRM Talks is brought to you by TRM Labs, the leading provider of blockchain intelligence and anti-money laundering software. This episode was produced in partnership with Voltage Productions. The music for this show was provided by iKOLIKS.

Ari Redbord (32:09):

Now let's get back to building.